Carmen
Sometimes you find out things about your Smarty Pants friends or friends that you have in one… You are their friend because of one thing, but in fact, you have other people who know them for something else. I had a World Collide moment related to Bill English recently. I know Bill English because we get to talk to him frequently from bibleandbusiness. Com. I think of him as a Bible teacher and a friend, but he’s also this super smarty-pants dude who, yeah, big people in big places know for big things. I got a call the other day from a person very close to me. It’s like, Do you know Bill English? I’m like, Yes, I do know Bill English. She almost fell out of her chair. She’s like, I mean, you know him? You know him? You know him personally? I’m like, You mean have his cell phone number, know him? Anyway, so there you go. Bill, your your Fame is great. Good morning, sir.
Bill
Good morning. Thank you. Super smarty pants.
Carmen
Totally. Super smarty pants. Good guy, like, knows how to help people. Executive coach, that was what she was interested in. Like, does he do executive coaching? I’m like, I think he does. I think this is one of the things that he does.
Bill
My wife is not going to let me live down the super smarty pants. I know she’s going to use that against me.
Carmen
You could get some little tags and have her sew them into the waistband. I’m just saying it’s a good indication when we’re wearing our pants backwards. I mean, it’s all those kinds of things. Okay, Bill, people were really, really afraid on Monday. You know how when you take a piece of red cloth and you wave it around in front of a bull and it makes them go crazy. So I feel like when the people saw red in all of those market indices on Monday, they started going crazy. Can we talk a little bit about the market volatility this week?
Bill
Yeah, we can. I think it’s normal. Markets never always just go up. They sometimes come down, and sometimes they come down in dramatic fashion. To my way of thinking, the market just corrected a little bit, and it wasn’t really… I thought it was a lot of do about nothing, much of do about nothing. When you look at the market itself, now, I tend to follow the standard and pores more than the Dow Jones industrial because the S&P measure is the most profitable 500 companies in the US, whereas the Dow Jones is just 30 companies. I think a 500 company measure is a little bit broader, a little bit more reliable measure. In the last five days, S&P has been down 5%, in the last month, it’s been down 7%, but in the last 12 months, it’s up 17%. So there’s no need to panic here. The whole downturn was based on the July jobs report, coupled with a fear of a coming recession, coupled with this, I think, immature need for another rate cut from the Fed. You put those three things together, and that fear index that we’ll talk about in a minute spiked.
Bill
Market went down. It is an emotional thing. Markets are emotional. It’s just not something that we need to be all that concerned about. Now, if this goes on for five days, 10 days, 15 days straight, then you start to get back in, gosh, what was it? Fall of 2008, when George Bush went up on stage and basically said, Our banking system is almost toast. It’s almost in the tank. We hemorrhaged jobs for several weeks weeks, I mean, every day we were losing or every week we were losing 100,000 or more jobs. Yeah, then you get concerned, then you pull your money, put it on the sideline, that thing. But we’re nowhere How did you hear that?
Carmen
I like to know the beginning of things and the roots of things. I was curious, and I looked up what the S and the P in the S&P stand for, and they were companies, people, and they were basically intelligence gathering groups in the late 1800s. They put together information so people could make good decisions. I It’s really appreciated learning that this is about information gathering, and this is about applying what we know about the health of companies and the projections for their future. That’s what these indices are, I guess, maybe originally designed to do. They’re designed to help us think through things. They’re not supposed to be inflaming our emotions. I feel like the standard and porous guys originally were not emotional They were gathering data about the railroad and making sure people knew it. Talk with us about the fear index, because it’s a little bit crazy to me that we’re actually responding to something that is measuring anxiety, not something that’s measuring how good a company is and whether or not we should be invested in it.
Bill
That’s because anxiety plays such a huge part in the market. I mean, for people who think the market is this logical place, you just think again. Look, it’s put up by the Chicago Board Options Exchange, and it’s a measure of expected price fluctuations over the next 30 days, and specifically, price fluctuations in the Standard and Poor’s 500 Index options. So the options to buy in the future, that’s what it’s actually measuring. So a person could go out and say, I want the option to buy a stock at this price in the future, and it measures that option in the S&P 500 Index. It’s commonly called the fear index. We know that sentiment plays a big role in decision making in the stock markets, and so it’s a good idea to look at it, but it’s far from perfect, and it’s not really all that predictive. One month ago, and that’s out of 100, right? So one month ago, July ninth, the VIX was sitting at 12.51 out of 100, 100 being the highest, zero being the lowest. On August fifth, and like one day, it jumped to 65.66, and today, it’s back down to 22.
Bill
So you can see that in a very short period of time, the volatility index sat below 20 until I think it was either Thursday or Friday of last week. Then by Monday, it had jumped to 65, now it’s back down to 22. It’s just a measure of anxiety city in the market. Is it a thing to follow? No. Is it a interesting thing to look at? Yeah, but I wouldn’t base trading decisions on it.
Carmen
It’s also called the VIX, V-I-X. For those of you wondering. Yes, it didn’t take me long to say to myself, I feel like the VIX needs a little vapor rub, needs a little opening up. I know. It does. I know. That’s my worst joke of the day. We are going to continue our conversation with Bill English here in just a moment. We’re going to talk about where our trust should be placed, and we’re going to talk about the trustworthiness of God and the certainty that we can have, and therefore not being anxious for anything. We’re going to talk about what the Bible says about trust and God, and yes, risk. That’s up next here on Mornings with Carmen. A hundred and fifty million people, a hundred and fifty million people actively use one particular app every month in the United States of America. I want that to be the Faith Radio app. How about you? If you’re wondering how you could be encouraged in your faith at any time, anywhere, well, I got good news for you. There’s literally an app for that. You can listen to Faith Radio live, any show on demand, no matter where you are at any time of the day or night.
Carmen
Download the free Faith Radio app right now. It’s super easy. Just text the word app to 877-933-2484 and click the link. Let’s connect faith to life. Who do you trust? How do you know who to trust? How much risk should we as Christians be taking? What does that even mean? How could we bring all of that into the conversations that are happening in the culture today related to the fluctuations in the financial markets? Our friend Bill English is here with us from Bibleandbusiness. Com. Bill, let’s talk a little bit about uncertainty in the Bible, trusting God. Then maybe you could talk a little bit also about risk.
Bill
When you ask the question, what does the Bible say about risk? And what does the Bible say about Christians assuming risk? In other words, taking on risk, engaging in risky behavior. I like to start with the person of God there. I like I’m going to start with who God is because who God is always frames up the rest of the theology. And in my research, I learned that God is what we call impassible. It’s a fancy word theologians use to mean that God cannot suffer injury or harm in the face of risk. Immutability means he cannot change. Now, he does have feelings, but he’s never growing, he’s never developing, God is never inconsistent, he is unchangeable. That’s immutability. But impassibility just means that he cannot undergo suffering, and he cannot have pain inflicted on him or a harm inflicted on him by an outside agent. Because if that was possible, then that outside agent would be greater than God. And we know that God is the greatest in every aspect in this universe. That’s why I really take heart. I never understood this verse, Carmen, until I learned about God’s impassibility. And that’s John 16:33, where Christ says, In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world.
Bill
And I used to think, I wonder what Christ getting at there. Well, that’s really a backwards, not backwards, it’s a passive way of saying, Nothing can harm me unless I let it harm me. That’s why when Christ went to the cross, he had to do so voluntarily because no one could make him. No one could make him go. And so he has overcome the world. And then the next dot that I connect to that is this. There’s phraseology throughout Psalms, of find your refuge in God, those who take refuge in him, those who run to God when there is trouble. That a sentiment is just replete in the Psalms. When we go and we hide under the wings of God, as a little chicken does under the wings of his or her mother, we are going to a God that cannot be injured. We’re going to a God that cannot be harmed. We’re going to a God that cannot change and does not change, and extends to us his protection in the face of risk. Now, there’s some caveats to that, right? But that’s where I go with this. I ground my security in who God is, or I shouldn’t say not, but before what God does.
Bill
Does that make sense?
Carmen
Say that one more time.
Bill
I said, I ground my security in who God is before I grounded in what he does.
Carmen
Yeah, I think the other way maybe of saying the same thing is that I have an eternal perspective even on my temporal experiences, right?
Bill
I mean, for me, there’s this Christus Victor image that keeps coming forward as you’re talking.
Carmen
Like, Jesus Christ has overcome. Christ is the victor. That doesn’t mean that there is not still evil in the world, and I am not still subject to it.
Bill
So let’s Well, let’s talk about that evil in the world for just a moment. Here’s several principles that I’ve gleaned from the scripture. One is this, when God calls us steward, which is what you and I are, and all Christians listening, we’re all stewards. When God calls a steward to assume significant risk. He calls us to be strong and courageous while promising his presence as we take on that risk. You’ll see that phraseology a lot in Deuteronomy and in Joshua, and even in 1 Samuel with David, you’ll see that God says, Go out and do this, take on this people, and be strong and courageous, and I will go with you. I think there’s a principle there for us to hang on to. And he also calls us to give our life away, and that is sometimes associated with risk in the Bible. At some point, I need to publish the word study here. I get that from Judges 5:18, where they almost gave their lives away in pursuit of that which advantage God and his kingdom. Our ability to give our lives away is ours. We give it away, but when we do so, when we take up our cross and follow Jesus, there’s always risk risk associated with that.
Bill
There’s always dangers that are going to come with that. I know we’re up against clock here. Just a couple other things. When God calls us to Embrace Risk, he calls us to embrace significant ministry because there is no significant ministry without significant risk. This idea, Carmen, that in America Christians can live a comfortable, safe, convenient, happy life and yet be highly effective for Jesus Christ, which is really trying to have the best of both worlds, I think is a canard. Our goal is to be faithful to God’s call on our lives to advantage his kingdom. And that’s going to mean disadvantages ourselves economically, socially, reputationally, in some form or fashion. That’s what it’s going to mean. And that’s part of counting the cost, right? I mean, that’s part of what Christ says. You got to count the cost because to follow me is going to be difficult. Sorry for my voice this morning. So let’s disabuse ourselves that we can, as Christians, be 100% sold out to Jesus and have this comfortable, convenient, safe life. No, we’re going to have risk. But when God calls us to the risk, he’s going to shoulder that with us, ask us to be strong and courageous, and he’s going to go with us, and we hide under the wings of the Almighty impassible immutable God.
Bill
That’s a great place to be.
Carmen
I think that for me, Bill, there’s also this, what’s really at risk? I mean, God knows the end from the beginning. I’m headed home to him. He’s working all things together for my good. What’s really at risk? I mean, I’m already dead. I’ve already died in Christ. I’ve been raised in Christ to newness of life. Every thing that I have the opportunity to do is from him and for him. What can the world really do to me? I realized that maybe that sounds over-spiritualized, but maybe Maybe we’re not spiritualizing things enough in our everyday conversations. I guess when my financial advisor would ask me, How much risk are you willing to endure? That is a question that is related to a particular subject matter area of my life because there’s really nothing… None of it’s mine anyway. I’m a steward, and so I want to be a good steward. I don’t want to… I do want to count the lost. I mean, all of those kinds of prudent parts of the conversation. But then in the end, I also want to be the person who’s like, nothing is at risk because God really does know the end from the beginning.
Carmen
God knows what’s coming, and I am secure in him. I’m going to run to the shelter of his wings.
Bill
The third servant in the parable of the Talents in Matthew 25, who hid the one talent under the rock, saw so much risk that he didn’t risk And he was called a wicked and lazy servant. So there is balance in how much risk we take on. My thing is, the balance is not… I’m going to disagree with myself right now. The balance is not in how much risk we take on, it’s in whether God called me to take on the risk. Because at the point where I am being martyred because of my faith, that’s the greatest risk I can take, is to fear the one who can kill my body rather than fearing the one who can kill my soul. So the risk isn’t how much you take on. The risk is, are you outside of God’s will and God’s protection when you take it on? That’s really the question for a biblical Christian.
Carmen
Okay, that is really helpful. I’m writing that down. That is so good. Bill, as always, thank you so much, brother.
Bill
You’re welcome. Good to be with you.
Carmen
My total smarty pants, smarty pants friend. I love it.